This is a terrific Bible study in Romans that Pastor Mark gave a while back.
It’s one of my favorites, and I never tire of listening to it. ‘Let’s start with death…and then go on from there’.
( you don’t hear that too often in your local non-denominational/Baptist/Calvinist/Pentecostal church on the corner…and they are ripping you off by not starting with your impending death, and the death that you died in Baptism )
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Anywho…give it a listen, and then feel free to make comments…or yell at me…or whatever you want. Just keep it clean 😀
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click here > The Great Book of Romans (chapter 8)
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Thanks, Pastor Mark!
And thanks to flickr and kfergos, for the photo.
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Filed under: Bible Study, Pastor Mark Anderson, Romans chapter 8 |
The Old Adam Lives! 
WOW!!
Pastor Mark, I take my hat off to you!
I’ve never heard nor read such a concise, eye-opening, and unfussy exegesis on the book of Romans, including Chapter 8. There is so much confusing information circulating in our churches about it. But it’s been a deeply moving experience to listen to your oral pleadings. You are a genuine, full-fledged attorney accounting for the fact of our salvation in Christ alone!
Take it for granted that I am strongly impressed by your persuasiveness.
Though you are still blessed because God is unmistakable with you, I’d like to wish you everlasting grace upon grace,
Susanne
Hi Steve,
Thank you so much for posting!
Be blessed in every area of your life, most particularly in the spiritual one. But, please, never forget – woe to you if you’ll reply too quickly. I believe that it’s time to give yourself the treat you need. Relax!
However, just in case you won’t act on my amicable advice, you can be sure that I’ll yell at you, even though it must be feared you won’t hear it at this distance. But I just get in the right mood for it – clearing my throat, “Humph, hem, hem …” 🙂
LOL!
Thank you, Susanne. Sometimes I deserve a good yelling at.
A Brief Summary
Your blog and sermons bless me so,
A gift of God, so good to know.
The truth, indeed, is hard to find,
It’s easier to stay deaf and blind.
But all you teach comes from the heart,
Puts now together, what fell apart.
I thank You, God, that I found You,
And you, my Brethren, chosen few.
Susanne
What a lovely poem, Susanne!
Thank you for that!
– Steve
Absolutely great! Law and GOSPEL! Thanks to Pastor Mark.
Pass it along, Mitchell!
I have always wondered something. Perhaps Pastor Mark or you, Steve can answer this.
The last verse of Romans Chapter One states: Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
Immediately in Romans Chapter Two it begins: You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?
For the longest time I have read these verses and my thinking seems to go in a different direction than the commentaries I have read. It seems to me that Paul is explaining that God has already judged the things mentioned in Chapter One. He has declared them to be sinful and in Chapter Two Paul is saying we have no right to judge a person’s actions differently than God has judged them because “when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?”
I don’t want to twist this passage, but I have always felt a real inclination toward this idea and it seems to fit with the sins mentioned in the 1st chapter and the statement “Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.”
It seems to me that in the beginning of Chapter Two we are being warned against thinking that we are more capable of judging right from wrong than God is and that we are being told that since we are inclined toward sin the same way as the sinners mentioned in Chapter One are inclined toward sin, we are unable to properly judge and may err in thinking ourselves wise and believing God is too harsh in His condemnation.
Please let me know if I am way off base on this. I enjoyed the sermon very much.
Hi Renee,
I don’t think you are off base at all. I think what you describe is exactly what St. Paul is saying. All of us are sinners and guilty before the Lord. We all sin in thought, word, and deed. By what we do. And by what we fail to do. “There is none that are righteous, no not one.”
So what right do we have to judge anyone? We have no such right, at all.
Jesus also warns us against that sort of thing. “Judge not, lest you be judged.”
We sometimes criticize other churches, or preachers beliefs about the Christian faith (here on this blog)…and there is nothing wrong with that if they are not preaching Christ and His gospel. But we do NOT have the right to ever judge anyone’s salvation. The Lord will be to do the right thing on that score.
I hope that helps a bit.
Thanks, Renee.
– Steve
Thanks Steve,
Recently I have noticed a trend in the Church to use the beginning of Romans 2 out of context. Divorcing the text from Chapter 1 perverts its meaning, especially since it is then often used to justify the very sins listed in Romans Chapter 1.
And I completely agree that only God knows the heart of an individual and we have no right to judge a person’s salvation.
That said, we do “know that God’s judgment against those who do such things (the sins mentioned in Chapter 1) is based on truth.” And we “know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death.” And that if we judge as right, what God has judged as wrong we “have no excuse…and are condemning [ourselves].”
I just want to make sure that I am not slanting this scripture towards my own bias and want to know that my exegesis is correct. I have never heard this section of scripture explained in this way. Commentaries I have read do not come to this conclusion and pastors I have discussed it with have not looked at it this way before our discussion.
Thanks for your opinion and expertise and Pastor Mark’s if he weighs in on your blog. This is a passage that has been ithcing at me for quite some time and I appreciate any input.
Renee
Renee,
I think Paul goes to great lengths in 1 and 2 to make sure that we are all painted into that corner. To make sure that we are all in the same boat. That “every mouth will be stopped”.
So, in that respect, I believe you have understood the meaning exactly right.
Pastor Mark does pop in once in a while, and so do a couple of other Lutheran pastors, now and then.
Patrick (see below) is a Lutheran pastor in Cape Coral, Florida. He also could let us know if we are on the right track, here.
(I do know they have a lot going on….time permitting)
Thank you, Renee.
– Steve
Two thumbs up!
I knew you’d like the study, Pastor Pat, being a big theology of the cross guy, yourself.
– Steve
Thanks Steve!
A pleasure, my friend.
Well, my comment is only that I am downloading the above message right now and look so forward to listening on my walk!! 8^) Feeble attempt at a happy face.
Again, Steve, thanks for maintaining the site. I read on it and am ALWAYS blessed and encouraged in our Good News. Having lived up until recently around the TOG in many stripes and colors…what a amazing find!
Hello, Mary!
I like that ‘happy face’. First one I have seen like that! You ought copywrite that!
Enjoy your walk around Canby, OR, and the bible study, Mary.
We very much appreciate the kinds words and encouragement.
– Steve
Splendid! Great summation of the early chapters of Romans to begin with, and the unpacking of Romans 8, especially its relationship to the flesh (fulfilling the law), creation and redemption is superb – already shared this with others… Romans 8:1 needs to be heard so much.
Thank you, my friends.
Thanks, Howard.
So glad that you have enjoyed it and benefitted from it. We pray your friends will, as well.
God bless you, friend.
– Steve