Pastor’s class

Here is a class/bible study that I’ve edited (just to shorten it a bit) , but still left the gist of the class in tact.

It’s about 40 minutes, but is long enough to ruffle a few feathers and may 
be open some eyes.

No doubt there will be detractors…and that is quite alright.

Listen in to Pastor Mark Anderson as he starts us off with some general descriptions of the sacramental view, the symbolic view, and the Lutheran view of baptism, along with a critique of ‘free will’ theology.

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  click on > baptism, ‘free will’, and other good stuff

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If you enjoy it…pass it along. Thanks!

     (this is a re-post from last year)

 

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When it comes to believing in God, who’s will is determinant ?

 

Does God exercise His will in Baptism, or did He order us to perform an empty religious ritual?

 

 

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8 Responses

  1. Great, thanks! I’ll have to bookmark this for later, but I’m really looking forward to listening to this.

  2. Thanks for sharing that Steve and kudos to Pastor Anderson. I’d be interested to hear him deal with a proper understanding of the free will we do have (free will beneath us).

  3. I was depressed before I listened to that, now I am really upset. “Does God exercise His will in Baptism, or did He order us to perform an empty religious ritual?”
    Your question sets up straw men.
    We are saved by God’s will, not ours. Faith is a gift.
    No one comes to Jesus but by the will of God. No decisions save. I understand the alter call preachers problem.
    The sacramental baptism shows the PARENT’S will, not God’s or the child’s. The examples in the new testament clearly show belief a prerequisite for baptism. The overt sign of the believer’s baptism is to show the world what is already done by God in the heart.
    I live in an area where most were baptized as infants. there is no continuing work in most cases as there was no work begun. These poor people think something took place that will save them, and unless they cry to the Lord for faith, they have nothing.
    Anyone who takes pride in a decision for God is ignorant of who they are as a person, and Who God is to a person, The Author and finisher of faith.
    The baptism of the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with any act of man. We can not command it, or cause it to take place. We can only recognize it for what it is, the act of a kind and merciful god to save the lost.
    Free will, a Joke!
    Baptism, a blessing!
    Perhaps the pride is in the heart of those who feel some sort of control over this process.
    Don’t look to declensions of verbiage, look to the acts of the first believers. It amazes me that Luther claimed the church was wrong on so many levels, yet when challenged on infant baptism reverted to tell the story of a wayward church and use it as an example.
    I love you Steve, thanks for letting me vent.
    I praise God Doctrine does not save, I am sure mine is imperfect, but Christ is perfect, and in Him I will put my faith.

  4. the overt sign of the believer’s baptism is to show the world what is already done by God in the heart.

    To which I ask, how does one know what is this thing already done by God? How does the candidate know what he thinks is in his heart is from God?

    So in your view, God does not grant forgiveness of sins in baptism? Hence, nothing happens, correct? you saw baptized folk in your area and you said no continuing work etc.

    Baptism, a blessing!

    But how can you say such a thing since you believe it is only the will of the parents the got the baby baptized?

    LPC

  5. L P Repent, and be Baptized. From what can an infant repent? How can Baptism ” do anything” with out a repentant heart? What a blessing it is to confess the faith in a Savior to the world and follow the teachings of Christ by obeying!
    The day, 33 years ago i was baptized I witnessed to all what had happened in my life. Christ had [past tense] provided justification for me! If I died before I was immersed, I would wake to see the very face of God.
    How can one know? because the hard heart of flint that new no fear of God, no shame of sin, now repented in humble thanksgiving for the work of the Holy Spirit in bringing life to dead flesh.
    The blood of Christ cleansed my sins, not the water in a tank.
    God forgives in repentance, and one is justified the instant you reach to Christ for salvation.
    Now sanctification, there is another matter.

  6. Infants are tainted with sin, also (if we are to believe the scriptures).

    The Lord told us to baptize. The water in the tank…in the font…accompanied by God’s word of promise, holds the power (God’s power) to forgive us and give us the power of the Holy Spirit.

    We believe it is pleasing to God to baptize infants.

    I was baptized as an infant for crying out loud!

  7. Crying out loud is no reason to baptize an infant , Steve, unless the infant was crying, “Lord forgive me for my sin and be my God forevermore. ”
    Infants will sin, as the Old Adam lives in the flesh, But the last Adam has said, “You need to be reborn”. Baptism with out rebirth? Where is that in the bible?
    L P ‘s comment has robbed me of sleep. ‘How does the candidate know what he thinks is in his heart is from God?’
    How could you be touched by the hand of God and not know? The gift of rebirth is quite remarkable, and impossible to ignore.

  8. Will,

    What did you have to do with being born the first time?

    What would make you think that one would have any role in being born the second time?

    Jesus told as much to Niccodemus.

    If God wants to give His Spirit, His Promises, and new life and salvation to someone in baptism, don’t you think that He could do it?

    Apparently, God has chosen to save some through baptism. Do all have to be baptized in order to be saved? No. We would allow that God also saves apart from baptism.

    But since the Lord commanded us to baptize and be baptized, and since it’s all over the New Testament…we believe God is active in baptism.

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